How long have you known Pastor Hagee?
We have a 34-year relationship, a 34-year friendship.
That is when he decided to run a Night to Honor Israel. Did you know him before then?
We had only met once prior, at a community event. We began to share time together when the Night to Honor Israel was emerging in response to criticism of Israel. He wanted to promote the wonderful favor that Israel did for the free world in bombing the Osirak nuclear reactor. And we began to speak with each other on an ongoing basis.
Did you have conversations about his idea before suggesting to the Federation that they should talk with him?
Yes, I had heard him out myself. My feeling was not based on discussion with others or extensive research, just the feeling that you get about a person when you meet them.
In the first years, until people learned to trust him and believe that he had no proselytizing agenda, and that he was what he said he would be, I had to represent him to different communities, to different Jewish leaders. I gave them my personal testimony, if you will, of his sincerity, the authenticity of his support for Yidden and desire to help Eretz Yisroel.
After a while, he became a known commodity. People in the national Jewish leadership came to recognize his idealism and altruism. So my role became less intense, less constant in the need to represent him to others.
I still say I’m a gatekeeper and advisor, because there are people always trying to reach him. He has to know who he needs to see. He relies on my advice and the advice of some others.
It’s an unlikely alliance.
The whole movement is “unlikely,” but it’s happening. It’s happening and it is something which has to be Yad HaShem. MeAyin Yavo Ezri. CUFI is a growing force for political advocacy at a time when we have no friends in the world outside North America.
Non-frum Jews need them in another way, also: their belief in Scripture. They say, “Eretz Yisroel belongs to you because the Torah says so.” We don’t have to believe their Bible, but they believe ours. We should hope that non-frum Jews will think about what he’s saying.
He’s a person, obviously, of power. He has strong, passionate beliefs. And he’s a visionary. He’s not politically correct. He acts based on what he thinks G-d wants, which is consistent in most areas of political and social life with what an Orthodox Jew should want.
What about the obvious religious chasm?
We’re both aware of that; obviously we all think of our own Acharis haYamim. But when we open the Wall Street Journal and look at the political scene, we don’t think about the end of days, but what is going to happen today or tomorrow. We have so many issues that we need to be active about now.
Why should we talk about the end of days when we have such concern about next week, or next month? When we have such concern about Iran and the well-being of the United States, are we growing stronger or weaker – there are just so many issues of the survival and security of the present that eschatological discussions are a luxury.
But “sof kol sof” doesn’t he believe you need to accept their religious founder to go to Heaven?
He has already worked that out, and gone on record saying that that’s not the case, that Torah-True Jews will have a “special grace.” Bottom line, he does not believe that our salvation depends upon a change of faith.
How do you view his personal interactions with the Jewish community?
I’ve seen him in very sensitive, tender moments. I’ve seen him with genuine tears at Yad VaShem. I’ve seen him being courteous to an elderly person who came to him when thousands were waiting.
I’ve seen his sensitivity to my needs, to Orthodox needs. Whenever there is any event, he’s concerned about Kashrus. Wherever I go with him, or any even where there are going to be Jews, there’s going to be a Kosher meal. Even for Jews that haven’t seen a Kosher meal in a long time.
He visited Jonathan Pollard in jail when few paid attention to his case. He sat in jail with Pollard for three or four hours. I viewed him as a visionary doing epic things, changing the feelings of Christians for Jews. And then I saw the lengths to which he was prepared to go to encourage and diminish the pain of a single Yid.
Whenever we go to Eretz Yisroel together we stop at the Wall and pray for each other’s well-being, as well as Eretz Yisroel and Klal Yisroel.
Why did he come to Rodfei Shalom after the vandalism?
There was no agenda, he didn’t know the media would be here. He came to ask what he can do, and how they can help – to be mechazek by standing with us. He conveyed the feeling that we are family. He supported our building campaign in 2007, and even told me that we didn’t need to recognize it – though we did, putting his name on the board room, where we meet. But he responded Wednesday as if it were his own church that had been attacked.
It’s clear that he cares about the entire Jewish community, but has a special relationship with you.
He has often said publicly that I’m the closest of all his friends among the clergy, Christian and otherwise. We’ll talk about things of a personal nature that may not be a topic of conversation with others. If there’s an issue that is vexing or troubling to him, he will call and ask for my prayers.
Ours is a mutual relationship. It just happened. It developed on a basis of mutual trust, respect and love.